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Post by MommySnooks 🐯 on Oct 31, 2021 22:06:22 GMT
(I’m not sure how to copy multiple posts from one thread into another, so I just copy-pasted the most relevant one. Hopefully it’s not confusing.)
I had asked why demote neighbourhoods if they opt out of a derby.
This was Momscar’s reply:
Without diverting the thread, I wanted to give you my thoughts on demoting hoods for taking a break. This is only my opinion, and remember that I am in a hood that rarely has more than 3 players and for years had only 2 active members. That said I have played many derbys solo and been left feeling burned out as well.
After many requests, SC did eventually give players the choice of opting out of a derby and then the ability of the NH Leader to opt out certain players. Larger NH’s would carry on as usual with one less player. The absence of 1 player is not a detriment to the rest of the NH that is playing. Obviously, if your NH consists of only 1 player and you opt out, you will be demoted. In every derby match up, no matter the # of players per NH, there will always (with few exception) be 3 NHs demoted. If my math is correct, 20% of all NHs playing in any given week are demoted.
So, my question would be - how fair is it to those NHs that actually played and got demoted if other NHs chose to opt out were able to stay in their current league? If you look at the big picture, by being demoted, you are only ‘losing’ 1 horseshoe column prize. You are experienced enough to know how to play in a higher league and may be more likely to be promoted the next derby you do play. Think of it as a way to ease yourself back into derby life without too much stress.
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Post by Mom’sCar on Oct 31, 2021 22:58:53 GMT
I will add to my reply - it’s been mentioned many times by many people that there are an infinite number of ways to play the game and each player must choose gives them the greatest joy.
Solo and very small NHs have chosen to play this way. The same as players in very large hoods. Each have their own set of problems, with respect to the derby.
There have been a handful of times that my own NH did not have an available player due to real life issues. and so we were demoted. The sun set that night, the moon came out, and the sun came up the next morning. And we lived to have a really fun derby the following week. We missed a few derby prizes, most of which can be earned by just playing the game.
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Post by MommySnooks 🐯 on Oct 31, 2021 23:32:47 GMT
Thanks for the background info in the first couple of paragraphs to put things into context, Momscar, regarding hood size and number of players, etc. You also noted that each week, 20% of neighbourhoods are demoted. Sounds right.
You asked how fair it would be to those who played and got demoted, if others opted out and stayed where they were. So here are my current thoughts on that:
Right now I’m of the opinion that it’s entirely fair, assuming opting out without being demoted were allowed.
Because:
1) If it’s an option, any neighbourhood has that option. If a hood wants to play, they will, and will be competing against others who also want to play. Everyone gets the rewards and promotions/demotions, etc., that they earned from that derby.
2) To state the obvious, those not playing and therefore couldn’t be demoted, couldn’t be *promoted, either.
3) Those not playing would also get zero rewards, which makes it costly enough to sit out, imo. Whereas those who were playing and were demoted still got the rewards they earned for whatever they were able to do. That makes it fair, to me. The hood sitting out doesn’t directly affect the others playing, at all. (Unlike in the current situation, where we sometimes play against hoods that don’t really want to be there and are opted in but do very little just hoping to not be in the bottom three. That in some way can affect the placement results overall.)
4) If a hood was opted in but didn’t show or didn't put in the effort, they in a sense “earned” that demotion. “Spectators” so to speak, just taking a break, did not.
5) When a neighbourhood comes back at the same level they were at, they compete as they usually would, against others they would usually compete against. (Instead of just climbing back up over hoods at lower levels or with less experience.)
6) Yes, returning hoods would still have the one (or two or however many extra horseshoe rewards they can get depending on how long they were away), but again, they already *lost more rewards than that, by sitting out (however many weeks) in the first place.
7) They did nothing in the way of mix-ups/mistakes/busy calendars making them miss a task or whatever else happens, to “deserve” losing the chance at the rewards by being demoted.
To add another game example—someone can correct me if I’m wrong because we haven’t had to sit out yet—but from what I understand, if a clan in Clash sits out of CWL (for a month or year, or whatever), they miss out on the rewards that come from playing it. But when they come back, they come back in the same league and pick up where they left off. They are promoted if they do well against whoever they’re matched with, or demoted if they don’t. Nothing changes. (They aren’t even reassessed to see what their current strength level is compared to when they first started, years before. Let’s not get into that one, lol.)
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Post by Tahoe 🐾 on Nov 1, 2021 1:50:57 GMT
I'd agree with Snooks' points here. I've mostly played the derby solo since its inception. I always felt it unfair to "punish" the member with a demotion because they weren't able to participate that week or simply just needed a week off. Yes, solo players can choose to play with others so they can take that time off, but many choose to play solo for a reason.
I have never been concerned with the derby "rewards". Having been a lifelong competitor, I was only concerned with maintaining the highest league possible. Recently though, I have taken some time off playing the derby, which has caused a couple demotions when the other two players were not able to play (they only play occasionally for the most part).
Perhaps one solution to this ongoing issue would be to allow solo players or entire hoods to be allowed to take "x" number of breaks within a given period without penalty.
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Post by 🌼GymGirl🌺 on Nov 1, 2021 2:30:38 GMT
I derby mostly nowadays with one other and we pick and choose which derbies we participate in. There are some we dislike and don’t bother with. Being demoted is fine and sometimes we welcome it as it suits us depending on what else is going on in our lives. If we participate we play to win but enjoy a slower pace when we are out. I don’t really regard opting out and being demoted as a penalty, in fact this had not occurred to me.
We have missed the last two derbies as I was away and did not want to commit to the derby.
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Post by MommySnooks 🐯 on Nov 1, 2021 3:29:23 GMT
I agree everyone can benefit from a break now and then, for various reasons. Whether being demoted bothers us or not, is a more personal thing. But it’s a game, and I can see why super-competitive people do not like being demoted, while others don’t particularly care. Yes, the sun rises.  So why wouldn’t they consider a change that suits those who would appreciate it and doesn’t make a difference to anyone else? Idk. I still think being able to “officially” opt out (as a hood) without demotions, would be a good change. (Besides, purple is my favourite colour.) 😉 |
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Post by 🌼GymGirl🌺 on Nov 1, 2021 4:49:40 GMT
I agree everyone can benefit from a break now and then, for various reasons. Whether being demoted bothers us or not, is a more personal thing. But it’s a game, and I can see why super-competitive people do not like being demoted, while others don’t particularly care. Yes, the sun rises. So why wouldn’t they consider a change that suits those who would appreciate it and doesn’t make a difference to anyone else? Idk. I still think being able to “officially” opt out (as a hood) without demotions, would be a good change. (Besides, purple is my favourite colour.) 😉 Idk either but then how does a hood who wants to drop back to a lower league do so? |
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Post by Tahoe 🐾 on Nov 1, 2021 4:59:18 GMT
I agree everyone can benefit from a break now and then, for various reasons. Whether being demoted bothers us or not, is a more personal thing. But it’s a game, and I can see why super-competitive people do not like being demoted, while others don’t particularly care. Yes, the sun rises. So why wouldn’t they consider a change that suits those who would appreciate it and doesn’t make a difference to anyone else? Idk. I still think being able to “officially” opt out (as a hood) without demotions, would be a good change. (Besides, purple is my favourite colour.) 😉 Idk either but then how does a hood who wants to drop back to a lower league do so? Opt in, then go on vacation?😁 |
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Post by 🌼GymGirl🌺 on Nov 1, 2021 6:53:36 GMT
Idk either but then how does a hood who wants to drop back to a lower league do so? Opt in, then go on vacation?😁 🤣🤣I don’t think I could do that, if I was in I would have to do it to the best of my ability. Once we did derby thinking we would take it easy and still finished in the top three🤣🤣 |
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Post by MommySnooks 🐯 on Nov 1, 2021 19:48:53 GMT
Opting in and doing little is what people are already doing to drop leagues. (Why do people want to drop leagues in HD? Lol.)
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Post by 🌼GymGirl🌺 on Nov 2, 2021 1:24:54 GMT
Opting in and doing little is what people are already doing to drop leagues. (Why do people want to drop leagues in HD? Lol.) We did it initially, before the farm pass came in, because it was easier to finish in the top three and enhance our chances of getting the decor. This is not the reason now because we get the decor from the paid farm pass but sometimes it is just easier when life is busy. |
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Post by MommySnooks 🐯 on Nov 2, 2021 1:33:43 GMT
Ooooooooohhhhh…. The deco!! Didn’t really think of that, lol. Is it the same in each league?
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Post by 🌼GymGirl🌺 on Nov 2, 2021 1:39:02 GMT
We got quite a few. Because originally we were in a larger NH and did not get the top three as often as we might the few of us who wanted to really try for decor that was our solution and yes it has worked.
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Post by MommySnooks 🐯 on Nov 2, 2021 1:52:36 GMT
Ok, I can certainly see that. But back to my point. Even though I’m tired and might just be unable to process anything r now, lol. How does some hood sitting out (and not getting deco either), change anything? They wouldn’t be in the lineup at all. Wait, so some want to sit out, in order *to get demoted this week *so next week they are in an easier league. If they weren’t demoted, they’d have to opt in and not play, but don’t want to do that. Is that what I’m getting? But then…and no judgement here—it was mentioned it’s not fair if people are able to take a break and not get demoted. It is it fair for those in lower leagues to get run over by experienced players who want easier deco? (Sorry if I’m being a bit of a pain here. I keep relating it to Clash and how low level clans complained about being matched with high level ones in war, or when town hall 10s have to attack town hall 14s, thing like that.). But I’m not sure whether it’s exactly an accurate comparison. (Where’s Warios? 😄. Have you participated in derbies yet?) |
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Post by Warios on Nov 2, 2021 2:32:28 GMT
Ok, I can certainly see that. But back to my point. Even though I’m tired and might just be unable to process anything r now, lol. How does some hood sitting out (and not getting deco either), change anything? They wouldn’t be in the lineup at all. Wait, so some want to sit out, in order *to get demoted this week *so next week they are in an easier league. If they weren’t demoted, they’d have to opt in and not play, but don’t want to do that. Is that what I’m getting? But then…and no judgement here—it was mentioned it’s not fair if people are able to take a break and not get demoted. It is it fair for those in lower leagues to get run over by experienced players who want easier deco? (Sorry if I’m being a bit of a pain here. I keep relating it to Clash and how low level clans complained about being matched with high level ones in war, or when town hall 10s have to attack town hall 14s, thing like that.). But I’m not sure whether it’s exactly an accurate comparison. (Where’s Warios ? 😄. Have you participated in derbies yet?) I have been in 6 derbies to date and proud to say have gained max points on all ! I have just joined a 'Hood from an advertisement here actually, @forever Autumn 🍂 ( justhayday.boards.net/user/82 )was kind enough to lower the minimum level to let a newbie like me join for the upcoming Derby |
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Post by 🌼GymGirl🌺 on Nov 2, 2021 2:54:03 GMT
Ok, I can certainly see that. But back to my point. Even though I’m tired and might just be unable to process anything r now, lol. How does some hood sitting out (and not getting deco either), change anything? They wouldn’t be in the lineup at all. Wait, so some want to sit out, in order *to get demoted this week *so next week they are in an easier league. If they weren’t demoted, they’d have to opt in and not play, but don’t want to do that. Is that what I’m getting? But then…and no judgement here—it was mentioned it’s not fair if people are able to take a break and not get demoted. It is it fair for those in lower leagues to get run over by experienced players who want easier deco? (Sorry if I’m being a bit of a pain here. I keep relating it to Clash and how low level clans complained about being matched with high level ones in war, or when town hall 10s have to attack town hall 14s, thing like that.). But I’m not sure whether it’s exactly an accurate comparison. (Where’s Warios ? 😄. Have you participated in derbies yet?) Possibly not fair but there are plenty who do it. We have played with numerous higher level players in the lower leagues. Now the decor are more available that is no longer a reason anyway. I would still opt out when it suited me whatever happens. |
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Post by MommySnooks 🐯 on Nov 2, 2021 3:07:37 GMT
Ok, I can certainly see that. But back to my point. Even though I’m tired and might just be unable to process anything r now, lol. How does some hood sitting out (and not getting deco either), change anything? They wouldn’t be in the lineup at all. Wait, so some want to sit out, in order *to get demoted this week *so next week they are in an easier league. If they weren’t demoted, they’d have to opt in and not play, but don’t want to do that. Is that what I’m getting? But then…and no judgement here—it was mentioned it’s not fair if people are able to take a break and not get demoted. It is it fair for those in lower leagues to get run over by experienced players who want easier deco? (Sorry if I’m being a bit of a pain here. I keep relating it to Clash and how low level clans complained about being matched with high level ones in war, or when town hall 10s have to attack town hall 14s, thing like that.). But I’m not sure whether it’s exactly an accurate comparison. (Where’s Warios ? 😄. Have you participated in derbies yet?) I have been in 6 derbies to date and proud to say have gained max points on all ! I have just joined a 'Hood from an advertisement here actually, @forever Autumn 🍂 ( justhayday.boards.net/user/82 )was kind enough to lower the minimum level to let a newbie like me join for the upcoming Derby Congrats! 😊. Have a great time! |
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Post by Mom’sCar on Nov 2, 2021 3:49:05 GMT
MommySnooks,
Players and neighborhoods are different entities. And it should be thought of like that. The player is not being demoted for opting out. The neighborhood is demoted for placing in the bottom 3 of a derby line-up; by entering the derby and not scoring enough points to get to the first threshold; or by never entering the derby at all.
Also, Clash and HayDay are very different when it comes to any competitiveness. Clash is everything competitive. HayDay wasn’t until the derby showed up. And it (the derby) is the only competitive part of HD.
I’m not sure I understand your comment about the NHs in lower levels having less experience and therefore getting run over by a more experienced NH. This could happen every week, in every League, whether there are NHs competing that strategically dropped a league or not. There is a constant movement up and down.
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Post by greenleaf on Nov 4, 2021 3:21:47 GMT
MommySnooks, Players and neighborhoods are different entities. And it should be thought of like that. The player is not being demoted for opting out. The neighborhood is demoted for placing in the bottom 3 of a derby line-up; by entering the derby and not scoring enough points to get to the first threshold; or by never entering the derby at all. Also, Clash and HayDay are very different when it comes to any competitiveness. Clash is everything competitive. HayDay wasn’t until the derby showed up. And it (the derby) is the only competitive part of HD. I’m not sure I understand your comment about the NHs in lower levels having less experience and therefore getting run over by a more experienced NH. This could happen every week, in every League, whether there are NHs competing that strategically dropped a league or not. There is a constant movement up and down. Yes there is. The hood I was in before constantly had 2 players that verbally attacked other players and the leader allowed it. I had enough so took my 2 farms and formed my own hood. The bickering continued and 11 players were either kicked or left mid derby. They asked to join my hood. So, we, a group of experienced players had to start at the bottom derby level. We won last week by 20,000 points. This week we are almost 30,000 points ahead and only 1 player left to finish. There are only 6 tasks so it goes fast. Yes, we ran over the other teams. We know how to play and plan to be back in championship league quickly. We do feel bad about the other teams and wish we could give them some pointers. But we are climbing back to the top and running over other teams is the only way to get there. Is it fair to inexperienced players? I don't think so. I think level and years playing should be a factor in placement. |
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donkeyfan
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Post by donkeyfan on Nov 4, 2021 14:09:26 GMT
Mom’sCar & MommySnooks 🐯Very interesting to read your arguments about the demotion thing when skipping derby. My sister-in-law and myself have a complete different approach to this theme. 1.) We don't like every derby. According to this we decide from case to case whether to take part or not. If we decide to skip we know that as result we'll be demoted, but that doesn't bother us. We don't care. 2.) When we decide to take part we only choose 320 and try everything to handle them properly. But mistakes happen, so if one of us crashes a task by accident we take it. That would be no reason to get an additional task by spending diamonds. However, if we feel like to do so we'll proceed, but if not it doesn't matter. We are both very relaxed. 3.) We try to enhance our actual level derby if we aren't in CL but not at all cost. If we succeed, well, we are pleased, if not, that's ok, too. 4.) We also try to maintain CL but on the other side if we are supposed to be demoted we know we'll get the chance to promote next time. 5.) With our style to play we have a relaxed derby experience, no stress, and mostly we accomplish to stay in our actual derby level. We aren't eager to reach the first 3 places. If we catch them, very well, if not we are glad to maintain our status.
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Post by 🌼GymGirl🌺 on Nov 4, 2021 20:41:20 GMT
Mom’sCar & MommySnooks 🐯 Very interesting to read your arguments about the demotion thing when skipping derby. My sister-in-law and myself have a complete different approach to this theme. 1.) We don't like every derby. According to this we decide from case to case whether to take part or not. If we decide to skip we know that as result we'll be demoted, but that doesn't bother us. We don't care. 2.) When we decide to take part we only choose 320 and try everything to handle them properly. But mistakes happen, so if one of us crashes a task by accident we take it. That would be no reason to get an additional task by spending diamonds. However, if we feel like to do so we'll proceed, but if not it doesn't matter. We are both very relaxed. 3.) We try to enhance our actual level derby if we aren't in CL but not at all cost. If we succeed, well, we are pleased, if not, that's ok, too. 4.) We also try to maintain CL but on the other side if we are supposed to be demoted we know we'll get the chance to promote next time. 5.) With our style to play we have a relaxed derby experience, no stress, and mostly we accomplish to stay in our actual derby level. We aren't eager to reach the first 3 places. If we catch them, very well, if not we are glad to maintain our status. This sounds very similar to our approach nowadays. We don’t need stress in a game🤣🤣 |
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